Jay Rayner on "stuff" that pisses him off

I agree about most except the raw milk. I grew up with Altadena dairy products in Los Angeles.- old-time health nuts perhaps, but they ran a spotless operation in compliance with all the health codes. I wish it were legal to run a similar business in New York. Of all the milk you could buy in the supermarket Altadena was the only one with a top cream layer - and if you’re making your own yogurt, etc. you really need to start with raw milk.

But as I learned from reading Anne Mendelson’s book Milk:
https://www.amazon.com/Milk-Surprising-Story-Through-Ages/dp/1400044103

drinking fresh milk is a pretty recent practice even in the lactose-tolerant parts of the world.

are you in NY Rat? My cousin runs the Ronybrook Dairy stand at the Union Square Farmers Market. No raw milk there but I was looking for unhomogenized whole milk which I found there. Imagine my surprise when it was my cousin selling it. (obviously I come from a close family)

2 Likes

Yes. I don’t think you can legally sell raw milk even at the Greenmarket - you can sell directly to the consumer from your farm.

Yes, that’s the case: http://www.realrawmilkfacts.com/raw-milk-regulations/state/new-york

Funny about your cousin!

You can make yogurt with homogenized milk, no problem. I do it all the time, and have for years. you just need some yogurt as your starter and take it from there.

1 Like

Well yes - I shouldn’t have made such a sweeping statement. Let’s just say I prefer doing it with raw milk since that way you also get the cream.

1 Like

I’m sorry, but that article is bollocks (full of crap).

There is nothing in Rayner’s list of seven to be livid about:

  1. There is nothing wrong with the use of the word “artisan”. It started as far as I can tell in the States, which may be the source of Rayner’s issue. But it is just another word, and has no legal meaning. If you don’t like it, buy something else.

  2. Gluten Intolerant. There are people who have gluten allergies, I have some in my family. They can not eat bread or they have an allergic reaction, in my family members’ case severe rashes and psoriasis. The thought that you should not have this properly investigated is just misinformed and dangerous.

If people are claiming to have a disease they don’t have there is a word for that, “hypochondriac”.

  1. “Skinny Girl” in the US is a term trademarked by Bethany Frankel ( a US reality TV star) for her brand of alcoholic beverages (ie. Margaritas). The brand has since been sold to Brown Forman (Jim Beam). As far as I am aware this is where the term started.

It’s a brand, if you don’t like it again don’t buy the brand.

Also it seems this is just bashing American TV. It’s a shame Britain now seems to get most of its culture from US reality TV, but blame that on the idiots who do another dreadfully-scripted turgid period piece in costume on the BBC, not America.

4.) The most important sensory organ when it comes to food is between your ears. If you believe the water makes a difference, it actually makes a difference. Many people claim the Brooklyn water is responsible for the unique flavor of its pizzas (I think it’s probably more likely the wild yeasts.) Lots of people are willing to fly 3000 miles or more to get a slice at De Fara:

5.) Refined vs. Unrefined Sugar. It’s a California thing:

I would say it depends greatly on the type of unrefined sugar. Unrefined cane sugar is about the same as white cane sugar. Honey is different altogether. But Rayner does not distinguish, and brings no clarity to the debate other than his unfounded opinion.

6.) Sorry, I grew up in a farming community. Raw Milk tastes nothing like pasteurized, there is a significant taste difference. And as long as you are getting this from a tested herd, TB is not a problem. So he is just plain wrong here. I would, however, always go to the farmer and never buy raw milk from a supermarket or health store.

7?) Is this really a point? Did he just run out of gas? Sorry, but complaints about other people’s beliefs about food choices just seems inappropriate.

People should be able to make up their own minds about the use of marketing terms in the only place that matters, the actual marketplace.

Rayner’s opinions on these points are just that, personal opinions. They do little to advance the dialogue, and are in some cases dangerously misinformed. If anything, one should be livid about his article.

As a further observation given his dislike of certain of these terms, I would highly recommend that Rayner not consider California as a future residence.

Again lot of Rayner’s article seems to be thinly disguised complaints about American influence on British food habits, but then there is a lot of America bashing going on lately around here.

So sorry old bean, harrumph, harrumph, but in my book the article is bollocks (crap).

You all may be confusing homogenized milk with raw milk.

Raw milk has not been pasteurized, ie heated to 150 degrees for 30 minutes to kill microorganisms, especially tuberculosis:

Homogenized milk has been blended so that the cream will not separate:

Non homogenized milk (cream on top) sold in stores is still usually pasteurized.

This bit of Rayner’s article, as noted above, is actually incorrect. There are some major differences between sugar and honey:

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5445024

Essentially honey contains more complex carbohydrates and trace elements than refined sugar. As a result, it is marginally healthier, although this can be offset in some cases by traces of pesticides in honey.

And in the final analysis we all get way too much sugar from the prepared foods we eat in our diet anyway, so any health benefits conferred by honey are a relative thing.

Well, let me say something then. Not to defend Jay Rayner since he does not need my help anyway, but to speak of why I semi-agree with him.

  1. It isn’t about the world of “artisan”, but rather the relentless use of artisan. So much so that it has no meaning now. Even mass produced/machined made cookies are labeled as artisan. The better question now is: What is NOT artisan.
  2. Vast majority of people who claim to be gluten intolerant are not. Neither he nor I is against gluten sensitive people, but rather people who are not, but claim to be. It actually put people who truly deserve the medical attention in a more dangerous position. When a person claims he/she is allergic to peanuts, people take the claim seriously. Most restaurants will state that they cannot be absolutely sure the dishes are absolutely free trace of peanut unless the kitchen never uses peanuts or peanuts containing ingredients – because they take the request seriously as a medical condition. Think about it. When is the last time you see a dish labeled as “peanut free” on a menu? Not so for gluten free. Most restaurants, markets,…etc take “gluten free” as a lifestyle request instead of a medical need. None of those “gluten free” dishes you see in the restaurants are truly free. This excessive claim put those truly need in a worse position. Since you have family members who truly suffer from gluten, you should actually agree with him.
  3. Water may make a difference. His point is that it is excessive/wasteful to ship water around. As he put it, “I don’t even care if the pizzas are better. It’s stupid.” Maybe cooking your steak by burning a $100 bill will make it ever slightly tastes better too, but it is not just about the taste – it is wasteful.
  4. He was criticizing people who bash refined sugars for no good reasons. Rather then saying he does not make the distinction, it is those people who do not make the distinction.
  5. He wasn’t talking about taste though. Rayner: "And don’t claim raw milk is healthier than pasteurised. "
  6. You wrote: "Sorry, but complaints about other people’s beliefs about food choices just seems inappropriate. " I think you reverse the situation. Jay Rayner states that he has problem with people (health guru) who claim their diets to be better than others. In other words, he is criticizing those who have already criticized others. If a health guru has already criticized other food choices, why can’t other people criticize them back? If I claim Japanese short grain rice to be healthier than Thailand Jasmine rice, why can’t someone criticizes my claim? I shouldn’t be allowed to hide behind the “it is my food choice” argument because I was the one who threw the first stone and criticized those who eat Thailand Jasmine rice.
7 Likes

I already knew what pasteurization and homogenization were, but thanks.

I apologise for any pecrieved condescension as that was not my intent.

From the various posts it seemed these things were being confused.

I’m too old to be pissed about much of anything.

4 Likes

Again it’s just a word. Nothing to get “livid” about. Let the market sort it out.

Here we have a serious disagreement.

Gluten allergies have been under diagnosed for years, and we should do or say nothing that would discourage people from getting tested.

If someone says they are gluten intolerant, you should encourage them to visit their allergist and get tested.

I’ll agree that it is wasteful, but it is only the tip of the iceberg in terms of what gets flown around the planet these days with regards to food stuffs.

And it is much cheaper to fly water than to fly people.

Yet again, let the market sort this out. If there is no demand for it, or the price is too high, it will die.

But, yet again, it’s nothing to get livid about.

I’m not clear on what you are trying to say here so I went back and checked the article:

“Learn some basic biology. It doesn’t matter whether you get your sugars in white granules from a paper bag or by collecting the raging tears of the Honey Monster. Sugar is sugar.”

So first of all what he is talking about is actually chemistry or maybe biochemisty, but not biology, as you should appreciate.

Second of all his statement about honey is incorrect, there are significant chemical differences between cane sugar and honey. Do we disagree about that?

Yes, but he goes on to say that “You only want to consume raw milk as an expression of some anti-modernist, self-satisfied, hipster lifestyle, not because you’re trying to stave off osteoporosis.”

That’s a gross over generalization, and does not reflect people who might want to drink raw milk simply because they like the taste.

As a chemist, you will admit that the process of pasteurization actually somewhat “cooks” the milk, and while killing bacteria, it also denatures various fatty esthers and other flavor molecules in the milk thereby altering the complex flavor profile?

Again, if you refer to my original answer, it is my opinion that people should be entitled to their own dietary preferences, and that we let the free market sort things out. Maybe inappropriate is the wrong word, I probably just should have said silly.

If a food idea makes economic sense, and there is a market for it, it will survive.

And if you don’t like it, you don’t have to buy and eat it. It’s that simple.

My dietary preferences were set a long time ago, and I generally don’t listen to what other have to say about new foods. For example, as a Scandogermanian, I would always cook my kale and would never eat this in a salad, just like I would never eat raw broccoli rabe.

But if other people want to eat raw kale, it’s fine by me.

I guess Rayner’s problem is that he actually listens to other people (what is a dietary guru anyway?) when they tell him what to eat. I stopped doing that years ago with my Mom & Dad.

But still, it’s nothing to get “livid” or angry about.

Maybe Rayner has Freudian issues?

1 Like
3 Likes

You have some good points, and I will just focus and reply to a couple.
I am guessing that it cannot be that many people experience gluten sensitivity. The reason is that at least half of the human population were descendants of wheat consuming people – especially European and Middleeastern descendants. As for getting discourage getting tested, I think that is the point. Most people who ask for gluten free have never tested. Nothing like peanuts allergy where people actually test for.

“Again, if you refer to my original answer, it is my opinion that people should be entitled to their own dietary preferences”

I agree that people should able to eat what they like – if they keep it privately. The moment the food gurus advertise their diet strategies and attacking others, then it isn’t just their personal preference.

A lot of the food gurus have no problem attacking other people’s diets, but they have problem when other people criticize their diets. How many gurus do not start their diets by saying along the line of “A, B, C are toxic. You have been lied to. Time to switch to eat X, Y, Z” Then, when they get push back, they often hide underneath the excuse of “Eating X, Y, Z is my personal choice. Do not criticize my personal choice.” Well, do they forget that they attacked A, B, C in the first place? Why didn’t they respect other people’s choice of eating A, B, C back then? It is never a level plainfield for them. They can do the attack (because it is about spreading the truth), but they cannot be attacked back (because it is about privacy and personal freedom).

It seems you are a free market person (based on a few statement you wrote here). One thing I do want to stress is that the whole free market concept is based on one important assumption: that is free flow of accurate information (complete information). So the whole idea of supply and demand and price adjustment is based on the fact that consumers know all the available price. Without accurate information, there is no accurate price adjustment.

So I will say the same thing here too. If we hope people make to make proper food choice, then we have to accept a certain level of information sharing.

2 Likes

His hairstyle made it 100% funnier.

I tend to agree with a lot of the things he is irritated by.

I have to admit the imported “sea water” is a new one for me. Is this common place?

The gluten “sensitive” one drive me crazy because people with serious gluten allergies tend to lumped with those who are just following the diet fad.

1 Like

National Geographic put out a good article on white sugar in the August 2013 magazine. An interesting read- unfortunately I passed that magazine on to my uncle in France. It talked about the contributions of sugar to the obesity “crisis”.

I think one of the problems people forget about sugars and fats are, even a good fat is still a fat and calorie dense. Better sugars are still calorie dense too.

1 Like

I think you hit it on the nail. The difference between a good sugar and a bad sugar is not like night and day. It is more like 5 PM vs 7 PM. I feel too many believe a bad sugar is cancer causing toxin, while a good sugar can cure Alzheime’s

3 Likes